Something that was brushed over on my 105/55 thread.

[baalzamonbarnes]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

What I'm actually looking for in the manner of a reason, as opposed to an excuse, iIs some justification for impinging on the enjoyment of new players.

You know you're not going to get it, so why do you keep asking?

And an excuse is a reason, it's just that you don't want to hear certain ones, which pretty much makes this thread useless. I agree with you that it's stupid and a jerk move to take elites and droknor's armor into the low level arenas, but it seems like you're just flame-baiting.

[SOT]

Originally Posted by Teklord

Did that make sense to anyone? Anyone at all?

I think this discussion just dropped to a level below what I'm willing to participate in. Oh well, happens to me a lot.

I wonder why.

You said that 'because I can' is not a reason. I explained how that is insane. Your non-desire to hear my reason for stating that all of reality is not an opinion, but in fact reality, is not my problem.

If you feel this thread is beneath you, which it is for many people, then why continue attempting to not contribute but comment? I know! Attention!

[Mhydrian]

Its lame to do it, but if you dont you are disadvantaged agaisnt people who do it. I wouldnt oppose some regulation for sure.

I personally think they should make a "clean" arena in addition to the normal ones. One where only people with non-elite skills and approprtiate gear could compete. Of course I can hear the outcries to this already. Even though all it would do was even the playing field for people wanting to PVP honestly, weak PVPers with no chance against real competition will oppose it simply because they cant have an unfair edge over everyone else

[SOT]

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

I personally think they should make a "clean" arena in addition to the normal ones. One where only people with non-elite skills and approprtiate gear could compete. Of course I can hear the outcries to this already. Even though all it would do was even the playing field for people wanting to PVP honestly, weak PVPers with no chance against real competition will oppose it simply because they cant have an unfair edge over everyone else

Now we're FINALLY getting somewhere past the reason why, and how it can be fixed.

I salute you

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by sot

So basically, what you just told me, and put me in my place (horror) is that, my ability to run to droks, get the armor, and return to cause you so much pain and frustration is an opinion.

wow thats an excellent intentional misinterpretation of my post. Of couse your ability to do so is not an opinion, I'd be surprised that I'd have to explain that to you if I believed for a moment that you didnt intentionally misinterpret my post. which was to say that it is your opinion that "because I can" is a valid reason. To which you are entitled. My opinion is that its a sorry excuse.

Originally Posted by SOT

Now we're FINALLY getting somewhere past the reason why, and how it can be fixed.

I salute you

Sigh, if you think "why is this happening", is the reason that this thread was made, youre incorrect. It was more along the lines of "why are we waiting on Anet to fix this"? Why can we not police ourselves? Why can we not adjust our attitudes so that anet can focus on fixing the big things??

[SOT]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

wow thats an excellent intentional misinterpretation of my post. Of couse your ability to do so is not an opinion, I'd be surprised that I'd have to explain that to you if I believed for a moment that you didnt intentionally misinterpret my post. which was to say that it is your opinion that "because I can" is a valid reason. To which you are entitled. My opinion is that its a sorry excuse.

Which is STILL a reason, whether you and the standards body of why reality takes place approve or do not.

LOL!

I mean seriously. If I am the guy who is doing this, hypothetically speaking, I am sitting here at my computer, and I realize that the only limit to my entering ascalon arena is my level, and I have this badass armor on, it begs the question: Does my personality and previous behavoir choices indicate that, because I realize I can do this behavior, I will?

Put the bong down

[Elistan Theocrat]

Ok, if you want to play semantic games all day thats fine. You use the word excuse one way, I use it as another. You say its a reason, I say if you insist on calling it that, fine, It doesnt JUSTIFY whats goin on.

[SOT]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Ok, if you want to play semantic games all day thats fine. You use the word excuse one way, I use it as another. You say its a reason, I say if you insist on calling it that, fine, It doesnt JUSTIFY whats goin on.

Sincerely granted.

But you have now swapped holy crusades. Now it is not why it happens, or how to curb it, or that it even exists or not, it is the lack of justification for it.

I honestly, with all my being, admit defeat. This thread is meaningless, and I will bow out now, because the insanity cannot go on forever.

[Weezer_Blue]

So you weren't done complaining enough about how other players enjoyed the game, even though monks and 105 builds are not the only successful farmers, so you created a brand new thread? Your point isn't even valid. The farmers flood the economy with stuff making it cheaper for everyone. They can only solo certain areas of the underworld - not the whole thing, and the preperation for the build costs tons. It's not like elementalists, warriors, mesmers, necromancers and rangers can't solo farm their own areas and come out wealthy.

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by SOT

Sincerely granted.

But you have now swapped holy crusades. Now it is not why it happens, or how to curb it, or that it even exists or not, it is the lack of justification for it.

I honestly, with all my being, admit defeat. This thread is meaningless, and I will bow out now, because the insanity cannot go on forever.

Which again goes to show the differences in how we think. justificaton has been the question since the OP. I'm pretty sure that the question was never why did this happen, even if you read it that way. The question is, why is this cool? Read that as why is this acceptable behavior? Having no luck gettin any answers on that front, I did change my wording, if not my intent, in the post you inentionally misinterpreted. I clearly stated that I was looking for a justification. You remember, the post where you tried to spin my meaning to suggest I meant that it was your opinion that you can go to droks. In that post, i called for a justification, and doing so in that post was only clarifying what the op was calling for. Now that i've made it clear to you what I want, having no justification handy, you attempt to flee the thread claiming that I've changed my intent. Not so. You just dont think like I do.

[coleslawdressin]

What if they remove elite skills? I can still buy a normal skill from farther into the game than a new player. Where is your limit, Yaks Bend? What happens if I have 39 AL armor or droks? The game auto calculates it as ascalon armor or presearing? Would I get an error in red "Your armor is too strong and new players may cry themselves to bed"? What about weapons? Max dmg ones are unfair.. HOW will you nerf this you nerf loving POS's?

When I was a newb I had no clue about droknars armor and I think it is like that for most people who have not played through yet. Now when I go back to ascalon arenas in my droks armor, its just for fun and some easy faction. Maybe I will smash some newbs face one round but he is on my team later and we get 20 wins. I have had people say "wow this is the best I have ever done, this is fun". I answer questions and offer advice if needed. I teach people how to select the called target. Most new players must just think, "hey I got owned, I will go play more and try to get better". If they know why the low level arenas are unfair, they had warning. ArenaNet has seen the complaints I'm sure but I have never seen any official word acknowleding this as a "problem".

Anyways, it is RANDOM arenas. Maybe I will get an awful team of level 5's with little skills and get owned. Maybe you are a newb and you get 3 droks wearers and go on a 50 win streak. Maybe my uber w/n in citadel glad's will get owned by a smart "newbie" with imagined burden, empathy, and conjure phantasm. The situation IMO is only mildly unfair, not worth the time to alter compared to other more pressing things like balancing endgame pvp, adding money sinks and a trader system, adding other content.

Elistan, you have a propensity to create useless threads that are in violation of the forums rules. This is 2 in two days. I reported it but no action will be taken it seems. I guess a lot of you people here really like to bitch about everything, over and over every damn day. I bet there are 10+ other threads on the same topic, post in them. Every good thread like Ensign's technical info or guild events are just pushed down with your nonsense. As I said before you offer no solutions, just more complaints. I really doubt I am the only one who is sick of this crap.

Let me see you try to read through my whole post and respond to it. You say you are going to ignore me, but you start pm'ing me. Don't like my response in PM's? You call me a vulgar troll when the stupid filter shielded your tender heart from my flying f-bomb. Obviously, you have heard the word before.. act like an adult if you are one. The only reason I am wasting my time on you is for the good of this community and for you. You can't just ignore the other side of the arguement. You can't just start threads with flaming a lot of people and expect them to worship your opinion. You can't categorize everyone who goes to low level arenas as the "OMG N0OBZAH JOO GOT PWNED" type, and not look like a moron. Just try to realize you are wrong and admit it please.. for your own good. You are not reaching an audience that is actually going to see their faults, you are just annoying the decent members of this community.

For those of you who get it.. what can we do? I guess I can ignore these threads and just give up.. but it would be nice without the repeated complain spam..

Admins/Mods please do your job! The way I read the rules.. this and many other threads are against the rules.. please improve things.. ty!

[Savio]

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

Admins/Mods please do your job! The way I read the rules.. this and many other threads are against the rules.. please improve things.. ty!

Ouch, burn on the mods. They ARE doing their jobs, and for free too.

Now when I go back to ascalon arenas in my droks armor, its just for fun and some easy faction. Maybe I will smash some newbs face one round but he is on my team later and we get 20 wins.

For maybe every 3 newbs on your team, you'll be tearing through 80 more. It's not cool to bring Droknar's to Asacalon-Yak's Bend arenas. That's already agreed upon by both sides here.

Max weapons...it's possible to put a limit too, since there's only a certain level of sword/axe/hammer that will drop around Ascalon. However, weapons become more irrelevant around Yak's Bend and because of skills and armor.

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

So you weren't done complaining enough about how other players enjoyed the game, even though monks and 105 builds are not the only successful farmers, so you created a brand new thread? Your point isn't even valid. The farmers flood the economy with stuff making it cheaper for everyone. They can only solo certain areas of the underworld - not the whole thing, and the preperation for the build costs tons. It's not like elementalists, warriors, mesmers, necromancers and rangers can't solo farm their own areas and come out wealthy.

This topic has nothing to do with farming, if you want to converse with me futher about why i think monks soloing in uw, as opposed to generic farming, is unbalanced I'd be happy to continue that conversation with you in PM. I'll thank you in advance for keeping further comments on this thread relevant to the conversation at hand, namely, why is whats going on currently in the introductory pvp areas acceptable and justifed behavior?

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by Savio

Ouch, burn on the mods. They ARE doing their jobs, and for free too.

Yes, a mod was here and did not see fit to close the thread at time. Some people think that if they dont like a thread, it should be deleted.

Originally Posted by Savio

For maybe every 3 newbs on your team, you'll be tearing through 80 more. It's not cool to bring Droknar's to Asacalon-Yak's Bend arenas. That's already agreed upon by both sides here.

Max weapons...it's possible to put a limit too, since there's only a certain level of sword/axe/hammer that will drop around Ascalon. However, weapons become more irrelevant around Yak's Bend and because of skills and armor.

It would not be that difficult for arena net to fix this, but for those who would troll and claim that this post is somehow wasting arenanet's time in which they could be fixing something they want fixed instead, I dont flatter myself to think that they are going to act on my post. People who are paying attention realize that I'm calling for the community to fix this so that Anet doesnt have to. I dont care if people want to have droks armor at lvl 10. I fail to see any justification for wearing it in the ascalon arena though. This is not something anet should have to fix, if people decided this was unacceptable behavior it could be fixed by the playerbase without wasting any of anets time they could be using to fix those issues that other people say are more important than this.

[coleslawdressin]

Originally Posted by Savio

Ouch, burn on the mods. They ARE doing their jobs, and for free too.


For maybe every 3 newbs on your team, you'll be tearing through 80 more. It's not cool to bring Droknar's to Asacalon-Yak's Bend arenas. That's already agreed upon by both sides here.

Max weapons...it's possible to put a limit too, since there's only a certain level of sword/axe/hammer that will drop around Ascalon. However, weapons become more irrelevant around Yak's Bend and because of skills and armor.

It is not burning the mods, I am asking for improvements around here.... They are pretty active and friendly it seems... There are also rules, made for a reason.. which keep being broken and nobody is punished... just stating my opinion.......

I never said it was "cool"... A lot of people who think they are uber go there though and taunt every team they smash.... If I go there for a couple K of faction and I am nice and friendly and helpful, I do not think this is bad.. It is not a hack or exploit and it is not overwhelmingly unfair.. This is a possibility coded into the game that was most likely considered.. I see no reason it should be changed before other more important things........

Yes lets limit the weapons.... 4-18 for axes sound good? What if I have the ability to get later on in the game and find my own 5-23 axe? Can't use it.... now that is fair...... you guys sound like socialists.. kind of sickening.....

---------------

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

Yes, a mod was here and did not see fit to close the thread at time. Some people think that if they dont like a thread, it should be deleted.

It would not be that difficult for arena net to fix this, but for those who would troll and claim that this post is somehow wasting arenanet's time in which they could be fixing something they want fixed instead, I dont flatter myself to think that they are going to act on my post. People who are paying attention realize that I'm calling for the community to fix this so that Anet doesnt have to. I dont care if people want to have droks armor at lvl 10. I fail to see any justification for wearing it in the ascalon arena though. This is not something anet should have to fix, if people decided this was unacceptable behavior it could be fixed by the playerbase without wasting any of anets time they could be using to fix those issues that other people say are more important than this.

Fine, if they don't want to follow their own rules.. I will adblock their ads.. $0.73 cents a year lost.. I am sure they care....

Ok Theocrat.... Go read ALL of the rules and explain how you are not breaking any of them please.. I freaking DARE you.......

Not difficult to fix? HOW WILL YOU FIX IT AND BE ABSOLUTELY FAIR?

The community to fix it???????? How long have you played GuildWars? A lot of people can't even read to the end of my WTS spam and understand the phrase "no offer = no response"... you expect even 1 person to read your crap and change their ways.... enjoy the puffy pink clouds you float on daily........... You are not the judge of what is acceptable ArenaNet is... enjoy all of your quests for nerfage....

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

You can post another reply to me if you are that insistant on having the last word but this is the last I'll respond to you.

12345

[Teklord]

Some people's children, I tell ya.

As for the Mods doing their 'job' (its more of a volunteer thing the way I understand it), for the most part they do just fine. However that being said, I have seen one or two of them get a little delete and lock down happy in the past. That is not really a good sign for the future, but it is their place and their will to do with it as they will. Don't presume to tell them what they should and should not do, I know I don't.

[coleslawdressin]

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

12345

I win. Thanks for playing. (Or you can respond to my posts, I am guaranteed to enjoy it.)


----------------

Tek.. I know they don't get paid.. I am really not trying to give them a hard time... you go read the rules too... they make sense... all I am asking is that they enforce them too. This suggestion (wrong forum) has been posted/discussed month after month (broken rule) and the OP offers no suggestion (broken rule). I don't even support this "adjustment" (1/20th as important as other changes that are needed IMO) and I gave the most in depth analysis of the situation (I think). Why should this trash not be deleted......?

[Elistan Theocrat]

Originally Posted by Teklord

Some people's children, I tell ya.

As for the Mods doing their 'job' (its more of a volunteer thing the way I understand it), for the most part they do just fine. However that being said, I have seen one or two of them get a little delete and lock down happy in the past. That is not really a good sign for the future, but it is their place and their will to do with it as they will. Don't presume to tell them what they should and should not do, I know I don't.

Amen, and Tek, would you not agree that it's not that difficult to determine what equpiment would be suitible for use in the ascalon/shiverpeak arenas? As far as the complaint that if they got a better sword it woudlnt be fair if they cant use it in the noob arena, I rather believe that the type of equipment that belongs on a 10 and under character could generally be of the type that can typically be gotten during the missions/quests/collectors between ascalon city and nolani academy. If the character has something from UW or FoW and wants to use it at lvl 10 for PvE where hes not negatively effecting someone elses play, i'm cool with that, but its not that big of an investment to buy a what 7-11 or whatever is determined appropriate weapon to be eligable to participate in the introductory pvp.

The argument that some noobs are happy that there are people who abuse the system on thier team and say things like "i've never done this well." Is one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that they dont know that youre abuse is whats enabling them to win dispite whatever poor skill choices, tactical decisions they make, and they learn nothing about pvp other than "cheat to win!". Those who do know, like when I realized what was goin on when my first character was in noob pvp, are more likely to be like, wow, yippie f'n skippy we won because i've got lamers on my team "sarcastic woot."

I cannot think of, and have not been presented with one justification to allow the noob arenas to be unbalanced as they are any longer.

[Savio]

Originally Posted by coleslawdressin

It is not a hack or exploit and it is not overwhelmingly unfair.. This is a possibility coded into the game that was most likely considered.. I see no reason it should be changed before other more important things........

A lvl 10 warrior with Droknar's armor WILL do a lot better. Yes, it IS overwhelmingly unfair because you can go on "20 win runs" without having to use much skill. If you were using Droknar's for your own enjoyment, that's fine and dandy, but against other players that's just wrong.

Yes lets limit the weapons.... 4-18 for axes sound good? What if I have the ability to get later on in the game and find my own 5-23 axe? Can't use it.... now that is fair...... you guys sound like socialists.. kind of sickening.....

By the time you find good weapons, you're past the level limit for the Arenas. And don't use socialist as an insult. We're supposed to be on fairly level playing fields in PvP.

Fine, if they don't want to follow their own rules..

They're mods, you aren't. End of story.

Not difficult to fix? HOW WILL YOU FIX IT AND BE ABSOLUTELY FAIR?

Tell me how Droknar's armor is fair.

The community to fix it???????? How long have you played GuildWars? A lot of people can't even read to the end of my WTS spam and understand the phrase "no offer = no response"... you expect even 1 person to read your crap and change their ways.... enjoy the puffy pink clouds you float on daily........... You are not the judge of what is acceptable ArenaNet is... enjoy all of your quests for nerfage....

You obviously don't know ANet well. They read fansites for suggestions.

This suggestion (wrong forum) has been posted/discussed month after month (broken rule) and the OP offers no suggestion (broken rule).

So it should be in the suggestion forum, even though it's *not* a suggestion? WTF?

As to Elistan, there will be no rational reason to bring Droknar's to Ascalon/YR arenas except for people who don't care about playing fair. There's not much rationale for them to let this continue.